proposal: re-alignment

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jazzrack
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proposal: re-alignment

Post by jazzrack » Thu 13 Dec '12 4:05am

original thread
ill16ca wrote:I wouldn't be against realignment, although I'd actually prefer two 12-team leagues/divisions. That's probably not everyone's cup of tea, so if we do decide to go with four divisions, this might work better in terms of accurate geography:

East:
Halifax
PEI
St. John's
Fredericton
Quebec
Montreal

South:
Niagara
Toronto
Richmond Hill
Hamilton
Kitchener
London

Central:
Saskatoon
Regina
Winnipeg
Thunder Bay
Ottawa
Kingston

West:
BC
Yukon
Lethbridge
Yellowknife
Edmonton
Calgary

Accurate geographical alignment is tricky with the cities we currently have in the league (9 out west, 9 in Ontario, 6 east of Ontario) but then again, it's not like we ever paid too much attention to it - London, Hamilton and Kitchener are actually further west than Toronto or Richmond Hill. :)
thanks

sorry was out of town again.

i would really rather see soomething like this than a a funkified playoff system.

3 divisions of 8 teams would also work.

even 2 leagues with 2 divisions would be an improvement
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Re: proposal: re-alaignment

Post by ill16ca » Thu 13 Dec '12 4:12am

Since I wrote the post you quoted, obviously I'm in favour of realignment. Although I'd like to reiterate my preference for two 12-team leagues with no divisions.

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Re: proposal: re-alaignment

Post by kq76 » Thu 13 Dec '12 4:37am

Unless there's playoff implications, does it really matter how the league is structured? As long as we stay with 33-40% of teams making the playoffs, I don't really care.

I'd still like to see two leagues with promotion/relegation though.

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Re: proposal: re-alaignment

Post by jazzrack » Thu 13 Dec '12 4:39am

i figured i would re bring it up while everbody was engaged in chat

apon reflection, if i were to draft a proposal i would propose a staged re-alaignment process.

1st stage would be to re-alaign each league to 2 divisions. after a few seasons we see if we want to continue with re-alaignment or not
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Re: proposal: re-alaignment

Post by jazzrack » Thu 13 Dec '12 4:41am

kq76 wrote:Unless there's playoff implications, does it really matter how the league is structured? As long as we stay with 33-40% of teams making the playoffs, I don't really care.

I'd still like to see two leagues with promotion/relegation though.
well that is the point of the whole exercise. with less division winners and more wildcard you get a better chance of the best records being in playoffs. the trick is balance. division rivals are fun and entertaing for fans and while it doesn't really matter in our fake universe we try to keep at least an eye on "reality" in what we do here so entertainment value has some worth.
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Re: proposal: re-alignment

Post by kq76 » Thu 13 Dec '12 5:15am

Ah, well if you're talking same amount of teams make the playoffs, but better teams are more likely to make the playoffs (2nd WC versus 3rd best div winner), then yeah, I'm down with 4 divs or 2 leagues of 2 divs each.

Maybe it's kind of interesting when a 3rd best div winner wins the WS (2006 Cardinals) or even just come close (2012 Tigers), but I think I'd still rather see balanced schedules and the teams with the best records making the playoffs.

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Re: proposal: re-alignment

Post by kq76 » Thu 13 Dec '12 5:22am

I am a fan of MLB's new one-game playoff with an additional wild card team though. As much as I like 7-game series, probably nothing is exciting as a 1-game do-or-die be it the 7th game of a 7-game series or the only game of a 1-game playoff. It's nice to say, "well, if you don't want that, win your division". It's also nice to give the team with the best record an opponent that is probably playing on short rest and has probably used one of their best SPs in that one game.

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Re: proposal: re-alignment

Post by Claybor » Thu 13 Dec '12 12:02pm

As long as nothing we do puts more teams in the playoffs!

Lets avoid playoff mediocrity!!!

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Re: proposal: re-alignment

Post by Halifax » Thu 13 Dec '12 2:28pm

Claybor wrote:As long as nothing we do puts more teams in the playoffs!

Lets avoid playoff mediocrity!!!
The fewer the better.

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Re: proposal: re-alignment

Post by Winnipeg59 » Thu 13 Dec '12 8:14pm

Again, consider this a comment from a first-year CBL GM...

I actually like the league structure as is! Very baseball with the three winners and a wild card in each league!
As mentioned in OP (or quote from OP), the alignment is a bit difficult because of the abundance (as is usually the case in Canada) of teams in the "East".
While leaving it status quo is kind of geographically close I cannot imagine a Torontonian being able to live with the idea they were a "Westerner" :crazy: , might I instead suggest:

East:
Niagara-Toronto-Richmond Hill-Hamilton
Montreal-Quebec-Ottawa-Kingston
St.John's-Fredericton-Halifax-PEI

West:
T.Bay-Winnipeg-Kitchener-London (and even that's stretching things a lot with K-W and Ldn)
Saskatoon-Regina-Lethbridge-Yellowknife
BC-Calgary-Edmonton-Yukon
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Re: proposal: re-alignment

Post by Winnipeg59 » Thu 13 Dec '12 9:09pm

And, like MLB, there's nothing to say that divisionally we must be entirely East to West. Could we not just roughly separate the leagues and assume that cities close to each other might be in separate leagues (like an AL/NL NYY/NYM scenario)??? We don't have to contend with actual travel costs after all? For example (and there are likely any number of ways you could slice this):

League 1
BC-Calgary-Yukon-Regina-Winnipeg-London
St.John's-Fredericton-Montreal-Toronto-Hamilton-Kingston

League 2
Edmonton-Lethbridge-Yellowknife-Saskatoon-T.Bay-Kitchener
Halifax-PEI-Quebec-Niagara-Richmond Hill-Ottawa

League Championship - Series
*** Old school! LESS playoffs???

Or funky wild card scenario like:
Divison Winners play next two best - all by "seed" - then League Championship - Series
*** I think you can do that in 13 with custom playoffs?

Although I still like a good wild card race (as we have now)!!!
I'll stop now... :geek:
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Re: proposal: re-alignment

Post by creed » Fri 14 Dec '12 11:03am

At the very lest have Hamilton and Kingston switch divisions.

The annoying thing about Canadian geography is that there's really no central. It's mainly East and West with roughly a 1000 miles of shield in the middle. That being said, what about this setup?

West
BC
Calgary
Edmonton
Yukon
Yellowknife
Regina
Lethbridge
Saskatoon

Ontario/Central
Winnipeg
Thunder Bay
Toronto
Richmond Hill
London
Kitchener
Niagara
Hamilton

East
Kingston
Ottawa
St. John
Fredricton
Halifax
PEI
Montreal
Quebec

It's not perfect (WInnipeg in the central, Ottawa and Kingston in the East), but IMO it's better having Toronto and Richmond Hill playing against teams thousands of kms away. More local rivalries are a bonus as well too.

The layoff structure is a bit dicey (you'd have to have at least one wild card...or top two teams in each division plus two wild cards...or something else entirely), and no idea if OOTP can handle odd division totals, but that's for folks to decide.

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Re: proposal: re-alignment

Post by JAttractive » Fri 14 Dec '12 11:11am

As long as we keep the same number of teams going to the playoffs I don't care. If you lower it there will be less incentive to win (only the elite make it) and less reason for GMs to get excited, pay attention, make trades etc. If you increase it anymore I think you reduce the importance of the regular season too much (so why the hell do we need to play 162 games if it doesn't matter all that much?).

I'd personally like to keep the structure as is. I like that if you are in a weak division you have a chance to make the playoffs, even with a bad team. I know a lot of people see that as a bad thing but to me it adds a bit of intrigue, can put some teams in some interesting positions (ie. do I keep rebuilding or do I rush it, do I sign these free agents and delay a rebuild, do I trade my picks and try to make one last push etc.).

Now if you want to move teams based on geography that's cool. Doesn't matter to me what division you put me in.

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Re: proposal: re-alignment

Post by llmolsonll » Fri 14 Dec '12 2:25pm

JAttractive wrote:
I'd personally like to keep the structure as is. I like that if you are in a weak division you have a chance to make the playoffs, even with a bad team. I know a lot of people see that as a bad thing but to me it adds a bit of intrigue, can put some teams in some interesting positions (ie. do I keep rebuilding or do I rush it, do I sign these free agents and delay a rebuild, do I trade my picks and try to make one last push etc.).
I totally agree with this, i have not exactly been in a strong division since i joined and i have been trying to fight for the division title about every season. I dont recall giving up during the offseason and not try my best to field a team which could compete inside my own division. Signed free agents and resigned my own players instead of trading them or letting go veterans to free agency.

Obviously, the strategy is different with 3 divisions instead of 3 and i think i prefer our current setup.

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Re: proposal: re-alignment

Post by cubfan377 » Fri 14 Dec '12 10:11pm

I'd personally wouldn't want to change the league structure too much. There is so much history with this league it would be a shame to do something big.

Moving the leagues from 3 to 2 divisions would be the most I want to see. Also agree that we shouldn't add to the 8 teams that make the playoffs.

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Re: proposal: re-alignment

Post by Checker33 » Sat 15 Dec '12 3:01am

JAttractive wrote:
I'd personally like to keep the structure as is. I like that if you are in a weak division you have a chance to make the playoffs, even with a bad team. I know a lot of people see that as a bad thing but to me it adds a bit of intrigue, can put some teams in some interesting positions (ie. do I keep rebuilding or do I rush it, do I sign these free agents and delay a rebuild, do I trade my picks and try to make one last push etc.).

I totally agree with this. Its what adds excitement to the league.

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