Proposal CBL Re-alignment (with existing division structure)

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CBL Re-alignment as proposed

Yes
8
62%
No (keep it as is)
5
38%
 
Total votes: 13

Winnipeg59
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Proposal CBL Re-alignment (with existing division structure)

Post by Winnipeg59 » Sun 27 Apr '14 8:37am

I know Chris has been working like crazy converting us to OOTP15, and I do NOT want to give him a ton of extra work, but I would like to again propose a slight re-alignment of the league to "better" reflect the Canadian geography. I created a very simple POLL to go with this post and thread (just for fun). Please vote only one time (I will start...if we go past 24, something is fishy :eh: ).

You know the existing alignment of course, so here's what I propose for 2050 and beyond, maintaining the same basic league structure of course. The changes are noted with BOLD CAPS:

Eastern League
Atlantic - Fredericton, Pei, St. John's, Halifax
Central - Montreal, Quebec, Ottawa, KINGSTON
Southern - Niagara, TORONTO, RICHMOND HILL, HAMILTON

Western League
Great Lake - Thunder Bay, Winnipeg, KITCHENER, LONDON
Prairie - Saskatoon, Regina, Lethbridge, Yelowknife
PACIFIC - Bc, Calgary, Edmonton, Yukon

Canada is a tough place to set up so many smaller divisions, mainly because there are plenty of teams in the centre of the country and fewer in the east and west parts, but I think this better aligns things geographically (as best you can).
I would also suggest a change from "West" as a division name because WEST is already the league name. Pacific (although only one team is technically anywhere near the Pacific) would be a nice bookend to Atlantic. Although maybe Mountain would work too.

I think this should just be a matter of the Commish changing the league structure with some simple movements BEFORE the schedule is generated (which I believe happens prior to the pre-season and long before Spring Training). The next generated schedule should reflect the changes. The MINORS need not be altered in anyway, but just double-check that the same minors are associated with the changed teams.
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Re: Proposal CBL Re-alignment (with existing division struct

Post by JohnHoward » Sun 27 Apr '14 9:23am

I vote NO. I enjoy watching Niagara, Kitchener, and Kingston fight to the death! :)

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Re: Proposal CBL Re-alignment (with existing division struct

Post by jazzrack » Sun 27 Apr '14 9:52am

with my team being near the artic circle I would need more information. I get wanting the divisions to make sense and I don't have a problem with it, but I also don't want to force anybody to move, division rivals have been formed ect.
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Re: Proposal CBL Re-alignment (with existing division struct

Post by ill16ca » Sun 27 Apr '14 11:16am

I'll refrain from voting, since my team isn't affected. Like Jazz, I don't want to force anyone to do something they don't want to do.

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Re: Proposal CBL Re-alignment (with existing division struct

Post by devaneyfan » Sun 27 Apr '14 3:41pm

Hamilton will play in any division. We voted in the affirmative.

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Re: Proposal CBL Re-alignment (with existing division struct

Post by Ajax » Sun 27 Apr '14 6:42pm

As a brand new owner I don't have an opinion on reorganizing yet. :)

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Re: Proposal CBL Re-alignment (with existing division struct

Post by chrisj » Sun 27 Apr '14 8:20pm

I've always thought about more radical re-alignment... but never knew what others would think. :)

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Re: Proposal CBL Re-alignment (with existing division struct

Post by devaneyfan » Sun 27 Apr '14 8:22pm

chrisj wrote:I've always thought about more radical re-alignment... but never knew what others would think. :)
What did you have in mind?

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Re: Proposal CBL Re-alignment (with existing division struct

Post by chrisj » Sun 27 Apr '14 8:39pm

I've never had anything specific - just thought about changing things a bit. I actually like the NHL setup applied to the CBL:

- 2 conferences
- 2 divisions in each conference
- Winner of each division makes the playoffs
- Top two non-division winners in each conference make the playoffs

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Re: Proposal CBL Re-alignment (with existing division struct

Post by devaneyfan » Sun 27 Apr '14 9:15pm

chrisj wrote:I've never had anything specific - just thought about changing things a bit. I actually like the NHL setup applied to the CBL:

- 2 conferences
- 2 divisions in each conference
- Winner of each division makes the playoffs
- Top two non-division winners in each conference make the playoffs
I like this idea, especially if we play a balanced league schedule so the two two non-division winners are truly the next best two teams.

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Re: Proposal CBL Re-alignment (with existing division struct

Post by cubfan377 » Sun 27 Apr '14 9:34pm

devaneyfan wrote: I like this idea, especially if we play a balanced league schedule so the two two non-division winners are truly the next best two teams.
My thoughts exactly.

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Re: Proposal CBL Re-alignment (with existing division struct

Post by ill16ca » Sun 27 Apr '14 9:35pm

IMO, less divisions is better. It helps ensure the best teams make the playoffs and don't benefit from a weak division, and vice versa.

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Re: Proposal CBL Re-alignment (with existing division struct

Post by Claybor » Sun 27 Apr '14 11:35pm

I like this idea, especially if we play a balanced league schedule so the two two non-division winners are truly the next best two teams.



My thoughts exactly.


Agreed

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Re: Proposal CBL Re-alignment (with existing division struct

Post by barracus79 » Mon 28 Apr '14 5:36am

firstly, in the end, it doesn't matter much to me as long as it makes sense. i think i'd like chris' alignment better, but before I committed, i'd like to see how the divisions look
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Re: Proposal CBL Re-alignment (with existing division struct

Post by Winnipeg59 » Mon 28 Apr '14 6:10am

Interesting how this has morphed.
While there is something to be said for more divisions (where you actually CAN make the playoffs in a weaker division, which might be a selling point in an online league), I see the point of the "best of the best" being given a chance too. But I have read arguments elsewhere about balanced schedules negating the concept of "divisions" in the first place, so off the top of my head (and without doing any math to see if it would work and/or there is a schedule to accommodate it) I would suggest divisions still play more games within their division, then fewer against the other division in their league, then fewer still inter-league.

As for the division alignment, here's what I would suggest (again realizing the peculiarities of trying to do this in Canada). Kitchener and London are in NO WAY "western" teams, but someone has to balance the divisions. Otherwise it falls pretty much in line with Canadian geography:
Sorry, I spelled Yellowknife incorrectly in original post.

Eastern League
Atlantic - Fredericton, PEI, St. John's, Halifax, Montreal, Quebec
Central - Ottawa, Kingston, Niagara, Toronto, Richmond Hill, Hamilton

Western League
Prairie - Saskatoon, Regina, Winnipeg, Thunder Bay, Kitchener, London
Pacific - BC, Calgary, Edmonton, Yukon, Yellowknife, Lethbridge


And, if I read the suggestions correctly, division winners are automatically home team in first round (say best 5) and the next 2 best teams in the "league" would be wild cards (best record playing 4th and the other two in the other series). The two winners then playing LCS (best of 7) and then the Canada Cup series (best of 7)?

I'll snoop around for a schedule that might work.
This would be a much more dramatic change for the league of course!

EDIT/ADDITION:

A quick search of the schedules supplied with OOTP suggests there is only ONE schedule with both Inter-league games and a balanced schedule - 60 Division - 66 Non-division - 36 Inter-league. That would mean you would play the five other teams in YOUR division 12 times, the six teams in the other division within your league 11 times and the teams in the other league 3 times. That would also suggest that the inter-league games would likely mean a home OR away series in any year but not BOTH. I know that was raised as a flag in a discussion long ago. So while the schedule is relatively balanced the home/away mix isn't really.

There is also a nice, custom schedule (Inter-league but Unbalanced) with the following configuration - 90 Division, 18 games against 5 other teams in division (7-11H/7-11A) - 36 Non-division, 6 games against 6 other teams in league (3H or 6H/3A or 6A) - 36 Inter-league, 3 games against other league (either 3H or 3A but not both H/A in a year). No cases of more than 20 straight days without off day - No home stands or road trips longer than 14 games.
*** Because I do not think we'll find a completely balanced (as in home and away mix) schedule, I would suggest this one and HOPE that the home and away flip-flops every season. Schedules are very hard to create - I've tried.

And there are a couple of Inter- league but Unbalanced schedules. One features 102 division - 42 other div - 18 inter- league. I'm not a fan as you wouldn't play all other teams each season it would appear.

And there are a couple featuring 84 division - 42 other division - 36 inter-league. Not a fan of this either because it would appear you would have to play some in your own division an odd number of times, which might throw off the balance.


The original suggestion, again, is simply re-working the divisions and not as much change, but there are all your options now it would appear...
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Re: Proposal CBL Re-alignment (with existing division struct

Post by chrisj » Mon 28 Apr '14 1:32pm

Another option for the schedule:

vs division (12 games each - 6H/6A)
vs other division (9 games each)
vs other league (4 games each)
Total = 162 games

The only issue is the vs other division would have 5H/4A or 4H/5A so not quite even.

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Re: Proposal CBL Re-alignment (with existing division struct

Post by jazzrack » Mon 28 Apr '14 3:16pm

if we are going to discuss radical re-alignment (I am not for it but I will live with it) it begs the question

what's the point of having 2 leagues? why not just go 1 league with 4 divisions?
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Re: Proposal CBL Re-alignment (with existing division struct

Post by JohnHoward » Mon 28 Apr '14 3:30pm

jazzrack wrote:
what's the point of having 2 leagues? why not just go 1 league with 4 divisions?
Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I think that if you do that it somehow really screws up league history, like in a really bad way.

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Re: Proposal CBL Re-alignment (with existing division struct

Post by cubfan377 » Thu 01 May '14 8:47am

Is there any chance we will make this switch before the 2050 season?

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Re: Proposal CBL Re-alignment (with existing division struct

Post by chrisj » Thu 01 May '14 9:22am

No, it would be 2051 at the earliest.

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Re: Proposal CBL Re-alignment (with existing division struct

Post by Kezzek » Thu 01 May '14 4:18pm

I really don't want major changes or realignment--it's been working fine for 12 years and counting.

It's Chris' league and I'll certainly accept his decision.
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Re: Proposal CBL Re-alignment (with existing division struct

Post by Gardi » Fri 02 May '14 7:03am

I voted yes but I don't really mind if we do or we don't. A logical regional set up does make sense.

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Re: Proposal CBL Re-alignment (with existing division struct

Post by JAttractive » Sat 03 May '14 3:32am

chrisj wrote:I've never had anything specific - just thought about changing things a bit. I actually like the NHL setup applied to the CBL:

- 2 conferences
- 2 divisions in each conference
- Winner of each division makes the playoffs
- Top two non-division winners in each conference make the playoffs

I like this.

But I don't have strong opinions one way or the other either.

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